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Charlie Munger at Redlands Forum 2/7/2020

Charlie Munger @ Redlands Forum 2/7/2020 - Sponsored by ESRI

 

Speakers: Charlie Munger, Jack Dangermond, Larry Burgess


All transcription errors are my own, please enjoy. 


Questioner

 

Welcome everybody and Charlie welcome to

our Redlands family well I'm glad to be

here I always like these awkward moments

you're supposed to step oh I'm supposed

to start well listen ladies and

gentlemen this is an amazing evening

I've had the pleasure to spend I think

three times with Charlie four times once

at his house in Hancock Park and and

then from time to time he comes to Redlands

us it's not amazing and so I'll simply

start with an interesting question I

think it's an interesting question

Charlie you have investments in a lot of

places like mill Valley and Santa

Barbara and you live in Hancock Park and

sometimes you say that Pasadena is your

second home and then you have various

investments around Claremont and now

investing here in Redlands. Why are you

investing at Redlands what do you what

do you think about Redlands I mean what

is it that attracts you here I mean I

can see a kind of pattern there Santa

Barbara Mill Valley Pasadena Claremont

and Redlands what is it?

 

Charlie Munger

 

well I have a

natural prejudice for this area because

when I was at Caltech in  I used to

hang around here my first wife went to

Scripps College and my sister went to

Scripps College and so I'm very familiar

with this area and of course I've

interfaced a lot of the people who love

these universities out here and so I I

started with a very always like the

orange trees against the mountains

whatever I started with a deep prejudice

yes and but my investments here happened

by accident what happened was I live in

a neighborhood which the ascetic Jews

came into a few decades ago a very

successful group of people and one day

in the my house a very young seventeen

year old as that he Joe came by and gave

me the Hebrew Bible in Hebrew and you

know Munger sounds like it could be a

German Jewish surname and it means

peddler in both German and English so it

wasn't totally crazy first setting Joe

to think that Munger could read the

Hebrew Bible in Hebrew but of course I

couldn't and I got to talking with him

and one thing led to another and I saw

there befriended avi and watched him

grow up and and avi never went to

college he has a mild attention deficit

disorder but Ferociously high IQ and he

was worried about it and I said avi I

said don't worry about you don't need

any college you're going to succeed

vitalism

well Avi now  it has four children

hugely successful business and I was

right he didn't need college

 

Questioner

 

and Avi is standing

rather there stand up avi is

 

Munger

 

Wave to the crowd

 

Avi had a client his

main client in his apartment management

business and he was unhappy and and I

think rightly so and so I said to him

one day cuz I've gotten the like and trust

AVI I said why don't you just get rid of

that client you've gotten by a bunch of

apartments for me and the first ones we

saw were the ones I bought out here and

that's how it happened

and by the way there at the end of

Alabama you know those beautiful

apartments they're really amazing park

you park you park you dare write

 

Questioner

 

I think

half of the occupants of those

apartments work at Elstree

 

Charlie Munger

 

so so one day

I'm sitting there and he calls me he

says could I come out and talk to you of

course I didn't know exactly know who

Charlie was so sure yeah okay

and that's what began this friendship

passionate amazing but we've had a fair

amount of fun Avi and his partner Reuben

and I and it's kind of creative to buy

old apartments and fix them up and of

course we have a philosophy that that

properly cared for and the apartment

management field is full of people who

just milk the properties and do the very

minimal and that's a stupid mistake if

you're a long-term investor and avi and

I share a belief that all these things

should be immediately improved and I

think in the first what year or

something like that we spend $, on

trees on just four projects

 

Questioner

 

you've got

my heart right there

 

Questioner

 

was that a planted

question? [bad dad joke haha]

 

Charlie Munger

 

but Jack you're probably doing

it out of love and I know how much

better it's going to work for me so I

don't deserve much credit because it's

very much in my interest financially to

plant all those trees now I would

probably plant them anyway but I can't

prove that that's how that's how we get

came out here and of course I like I

like the mountains like the trees and I

like the people what I like these good

colleges and I I didn't start out with

the idea I picked Redlands out of the

world it's just where this apartment

project that caught my attention was and

but once I was here I did not know there

was an ESRI company I have made my way

in life with a pencil and a pen

calculating machine in the compound ever

stable and I haven't looked at the

calculus question since I was  years

old so I'm totally a creature of

old-fashioned horse sense a little

arithmetic and so I don't know about

software companies like Ezra if I'd

known I would have paid more for the

project you know it's it's a huge

blessing to go into communal is a big

employer that keeps hiring and so forth

then obvious so smart I didn't suggest

that he started giving they're all kinds

of rules of apartment-house operators

about guarantees of leases and down

payments and what-have-you and not every

new employee of Eve

Ezri qualifies and I'll be just one look

at the situation and waves all those

requirements for anybody that wants to

work at ESRI Thank You avi I really

appreciate that but there again he

doesn't deserve any credit it's a smart

business direct so he doesn't know

whether he's being nicer being a greedy

I do whatever I like these things were a

confluence of two factors is working in

the right direction yeah and but it I

happen to think I share Jack's interest

in the design and architecture which is

an absolute accident my uncle was a

graduate of the Harvard School of

Architecture and I am a graduate of the

Harvard Law School and I have done a

fair amount of house building for myself

and and building projects of various

kinds in my long life and so it's kind

of a hobby with me to do what Jack does

professionally and so of course and I

see this beautiful campus this very

successful company and I'm also a total

nut on the subject that the best way to

get what you want life

to deserve what you want and of course

if you apply that the business that

means you really take care of the

customers and it's perfectly obvious

that what's happened to ESRI would not

have happened if it weren't terribly

good taking care of the customers and of

course that's again I don't deserve any

credit for doing it and I know I make

more money taking care of the customers

I would if I were more short-term

operator than operating

em so yeah I don't on a masquerade as a

better fellow I am because since it

works so well I don't think it's it'd be

nicer if I were mother Teresa do something I

didn't like doing because lemon dough

will sold but I can my life is organized

a just time after time what works for my

pocketbook works for every moral

teaching I've I've been taught you know

and I anybody was in such a possession

it's very lucky and you people will work

for a company like ESRI are hugely lucky

too because there are a lot of employers

that are defective one of the things

 

Questioner

 

I have as a question as you have acquired

many companies you and Warren together

in your career you've looked at probably

thousands what's the kind of philosophy

that you have determining what's a good

 

company and what's not a good company

 

right I'm not suggesting that you had

 

perfect success in all of your

 

acquisitions because I know you have you

 

told me that but what is it that what is

 

your sort of philosophical rule base for

 

when you're looking at organizations to

 

invest in or acquire

 

Charlie Munger

 

well we have a very

peculiar way of looking at things we

want to buy something that's

intrinsically a very good business

meaning there's an idiot cos Runner and

it would do all right and then we want

that business which an idiot could run

successfully to have a wonderful person

and running it and that we have a

wonderful business with a wonderful

person running it that really turns us

on and it works very well and now we do

make exceptions

but not many and and it's a pretty

simple philosophy

 

Warren sometimes says

you have to choose good person or good

business you know what he says this is

not politically correct he says good

business he wants something that has

such a such tremendous strength

 

I had a friend why we practice law and he said

if it won't stand a little mismanagement

it's not much of a business

 

and we like

businesses that stand a lot of

mismanagement but don't get it so that's

our formula and it and we can't make it

work perfectly but it certainly worked

better than most people's things have

been and then and we reject some

wonderful businesses and some wonderful

people where it's just too tough yeah

you know I took on once I've been so

lucky in life that I took on wants a job

of a chairman of a non-profit Hospital

because it was a losing hand too many

competitors to weak position yeah a lot

of terrible defects and I said you know

this is good for me you know I am

exposed myself to the disappointments of

the real world and I want to say it was

 years mixed agony and pleasure and

the agony never went away it was if the

business is tough enough it hasn't way

of staying tough as a warrants that says

that when a business with a reputation

for being tough and a manager with an

opportunity for being brilliant get

together he says it's the reputation of

the business that remains

and if they start tough they stay tough it's really

hard to judge a whole business or a

person well lot's of luck if you're

coming with disappointed one of your

children

 

[Laughter]

 

Questioner

 

yeah one time you mentioned that you

have a particular way of making deals

with people your friends business deals

could you sort of express that to this

crowd you know your sort of philosophy

about do you try to win it all cause or

what is

 

Munger

 

well no no no again what

really works in life is win-win and

that requires some sensitivity to the

other roles way of thinking and his

needs to end but win-win is the

only formula that that really will work

on and on and on and when it really

starts working when two people trust

each other imagine take a operating

theatre the Mayo Clinic the whole damn

group trust one another there's not a

lot of lawyers are cut you know they

just know what to do and want to do it

and who to call um for what helping

everybody does what they're supposed to

and so on so we're trying to get these

win-win relations and of course I see it

all the time

 

Costco has this reputation I'm a

director of Costco and Costco has this

reputation of being a fairly tough buyer

I don't regard them as that tough they

there are a lot of people who are

richest small compliers of Costco and

but but Costco's into into win-win and

and that that's what really works

 

Questioner

 

yeah it's win-win with their customers

but it's also win-win with their

suppliers and it's also win-win with

their employees absolutely everybody has

to win land and

 

Peter Kauffman

you know else just it was here a few

weeks ago didn't anybody see Peter he's

the close friend of Peters the element

win-win operator and the

 

Charlie Munger

 

last person I

want to compete with in life is Peter he

just takes such good care of the

 

customers I've never heard any complaint

 

from Peters customers except his prices

 

everything else about the business is

 

perfect yeah

 

 

Jack (Questioner )

 

Larry do you have any questions?

 

Larry Burgess (Questioner )

 

yeah I totally but I'm going

to change it from the subjects

you've been asking Jack and for warning

spoiler alert we talked about this back

backstage I think you have a surprising

take on a question that I was asking

about philanthropy in this country and

you gave an analysis

that to me was quite unexpected that

wasn't really thinking about so can I

have you yeah all the gang we had to

repeat it

 

Charlie Munger

 

what I have noticed in my life

is that in Europe they do not have

American philanthropy it's just during

the only country in Europe where the

people give heavily in routinely what we

do here is how long then they were

fighting the North Sea together

percent of Holland is under sea level

and they really had to help one another

were the dikes and so forth and America

we had the Pioneers taking away the

country from hostilities and danger and

bad climate and so forth and everybody

had to help everybody else so I think

that both Holland and the United States

were helped with a big tradition of

philanthropy but I think common hardship

and I think it's a great strength that

we have in America and if any of us were

transplanted to Italy or France or

Germany we'd feel hurt was selfish

people they just don't have much of a

tradition of giving yeah and I don't

know about you but my involvement with

charitable activities has been a big

part of my life and I think I'm better

for it I've had a better life so I think

they they're missing out

 

Larry Burgess

 

how do you do how you're

how do you do it I mean you

you what I've watched is you have a very

specific set of things you do and I'm totally

charmed by it but also interested in

having you Sharon

 

Charlie Munger

 

well not everybody is charmed by it

because I get begging letters every day

and I just always basket

particularly when they come for

individuals I don't know because I have

a feeling you I started responding to

those I'd have nothing but letters but

I'm like everybody else I have things

that interest me more than other things

and I have done a lot of philanthropy

where I mixed my own ideas with my money and

 

my attitude there is a lot like what

McNamara told the Chinese when he lived

over there when they were still mired in

communism without Chinese characteristics and

 

McNamara says we're

giving you all this money from my World

Bank he says well I want you to know

Something he says the ideas I'm promoting are

going to help you a lot more than this

enormous amount of money

 

and so it worked out, what a little free enterprise

did when added Chinese communism was

take  million people up to a billion

something people and % of them were

living in stoop labor and subsistence

agriculture they were living like the

people of central Africa live and

and it wasn't that many years well if

the Chinese have a big middle class and

an average GDP of , dollars a

person instead of three hundred dollars

a person transform them and the ideas

were worth more

 

you have to give the Chinese credit for you know one of those

old communist says I don't care if the

cat is black or white as long as it

catches Mice

 

They watch the Chinese man

in Singapore and take a malarial swamp

and turn it into almost a paradise with

a % Chinese population and they're

sitting there in this poverty and

obscurity in no toilets and

and really who very tough lives and

here's Singapore flourishing with his

Chinese population that old communist

says I want to be like Singapore and he

made it happen

now that I think he deserves some credit

in my life I think what happened in

Singapore was one of the interesting

bits of political science that ever

happened in the history of the world I

would argue the Lee Kuan Yu was

probably the greatest nation builders

has ever built

 

now occasionally he would use a pretty tough method he took over

he was a very young man and he was

surrounded by a bunch of Muslims have

hated him and like they'd spit him

out and he asked all the other

nations of the world to please help him

get an army cuz they got him he's just

left and said handle their own problem

and every nation in the world refused to

help him but one and that was Israel and

he said how am I gonna take military aid

surrounded by Muslims who hate me from

Israel he finally figured it out he

accepted the Aidan told everybody they

were Mexicans

 

[Laughter]

 

well here you can see why he was so

successful

 

he had a mantra which

doesn't have any literary quality but it

has a lot of good sense and he'd say or

over again

figure out what works and do it

 

 

that's what Lee Kuan Yu said. That is very practical, very practical

 

 

can I hear out what works and do it do

 

Larry Burgess

 

a follow-up on this did you do you feel

that philanthropically are people I know

there's not a gene but born with an

instinctive sense that to help or is it

a learned trait as one gets on I just

 

Charlie Munger

 

I think there's a million different

reasons for philanthropy and one thing

that is very interesting that I've

observed in my life, I've known a lot of

roguish people that made it fair amount

of money and they start giving a little

money to show off and 20 years later

they're actually real for other us

you you you become what you pretend to

be to some considerable extent

andhaving observed this so much I think

there's something to be said for

hypocrisy but that's not a common

it's not a common observation but I've

seen it there's so much good in life

it I don't think it's all bad hypocrisy

I always try to pretend to be a little

better than I am

 

not too much of a

 

Questioner 1

 

by the way don't you read a book a day

 

something like that thank you

 

Charlie Munger

 

well maybe I read I skim oh yeah I do the accidents

of life you'll give me books I haven't

torn the books and perfect strangers

give me books yeah lots of them and and

I almost never buy a book anymore well I

was young I used to order them from the

book review columns of the New York

Times and now it's Tartabull comes in I

just saw like what I want and I'm amazed

at how well some of these people are

reading me and yes and what has that

done to your life I think well it's it

was perfect for me I don't think you can

take every bookish little boy and turn

him into a billionaire by patting him on

the head and say read all you want

Johnny but if it were that easy there'd

be more billionaires but but it it

enormously helped me and

 

I've been reading what you've learned at reading

and arithmetic you can take in so much

and you can take it in on your own time

schedule if somebody's talking to you

hear me telling you something you don't

want to know you already know it's too

hard or he's going too fast or too slow

but you're reading you can just they can

take it and you wallet so it's just it's

just it's just God's gift if you if

you're the self education there's

nothing like reading and

 

of course people do a lot of it have an enormous

advantage and

 

Jack

 

what does that say to education

 

Larry

 

yeah or you might have yeah we

back to this issue about sort of today

you have such a

 

and depth of diverse interests and ways

 

in which you acquire knowledge and

 

observation and all the rest but where

 

do you think we're headed in terms of

 

specialization versus a broad-based

 

Charlie Munger

 

at least well our specialization is the safest way up for

most people and for that reason they

surgeons know more and more about less

and less and that's it that's what's

gets rewarded didn't know if you have a

nasty fistula in your colon you do not

want two surgeons go to Proust or

political science it's understandable

how the world rewards this

specialization I never liked it and I

loved picking up new ideas being great a

passion of reader and so I decided I'd

make whatever living and I could make

doing what I like to do which is

wrapping over a whole field I do not

recommend it to other people because the

safe way up is no I have a lot about

something and under our system they find

you out you know as very wouldn't work

very well if you also rake lawns you

know you never know I've done I've done

my share of it yeah well I mean but have

you had everybody out here when working

by the hour raking wands on the spare

time it wouldn't work very well and

 

Jack

 

I think what Larry is trying to get at is

the role of a liberal arts education

what is your thoughts about that

 

Charlie Munger

 

well it's in a it's a it's an enormous

advantage of course if you learn your

own language that's a very useful gift

and of course learning the basic math of

life is another tremendous gift and if

you're really good at picking up

language and doing just basic arithmetic

you can take enormous territory you

don't need much else I have never looked

at the calculus problem since I left Caltech never left

it never looked once never used it and I

was a whiz by the way I went away

totally some years yeah

 

I don’t know about

your calculus but mine is mindless its

gone

 

and so but this other stuff

never goes away and if you keep honing

it and if you get good at it

then you learn something that's more

important than what they teach you in

college is you learn the method of

learning

 

when I want to know something I just learned it

and take for instance

I got to the Harvard Law School I

couldn't figure out how reverend moon

was inviting people out to one weekend

then they came back brainwashed zombies

for the rest of their lives and I just

nobody in the Harvard Law School could

explain it to me so I saw I'll figure it

out for myself you know my mother had a

little nursery rhyme a little heady

read Hamlet said I'll do it myself the

little radiant soul I said I'll figure

this out what I'd be a long time

 

but I finally figured out to my satisfaction

exactly what was being done they were

just and they just stumbled into this

through practice evolution it wasn't

calculated for thought they just

assembled a bunch of psychological

tricks impounded the one these people

all at once under conditions involving

stress and at a certain point the brain

would just snap and they had these

people transformed into slaves boom why

that was a very interesting thing but of

course nobody wants to talk about it

because it has implications people fear

but but

 

I think that the that habit of

oh if they won't explain if you figure

it out for yourself has helped me

enormously in life

 

it's also hurt me because you give

terrible offense when you go into

somebody else's profession and act like

you know more than he does and I've I

much smoother now that I was when I was

young I'm still pretty insufferable but

 

Questioner

 

what are you thinking about today is the

economy in reference to ten years ago in

reference to 20, 30, 40 years ago

 

Charlie Munger

 

what's going on today

well what's gone politics is the people

hate each other more than they used to

it wasn't that we didn't have political

hatreds in the old days but now the

hatred you can cut with a knife on both

sides I think it's very ugly and I also

think of this stupid

allow yourself to hate that much there

are two things I've noticed in a long

life really do a enormous damage to the

bearer and one of them is resentment and

the other is hatred and it's just what

good is it gonna do you to have this

Fester's down under the way the world is

and and

 

of course I've watched people

work on resentment to get power in

politics Adolf Hitler “did you know we

poor Germans of an abused

blah-blah-blah-blah waving his arms”

 

and I don't I think that we have drifted

on both sides and a way too much hatred

and way too much resentment and does

this guy and I think it does terrible

damage to the bearer cuz this you can be

disappointed in your political opponent

you don't have to hate him after all

he's just you're probably as much about

nutcases he is in some ways

 

Questioner

 

doesn't

scare you about our times or what he

what do you think do you think it's

gonna all work out

 

 

Charlie Munger

 

well there's always

been a fair amount of it in politics you

know and Jefferson and Hamilton hated

each other and Franklin didn't even,

Franklin had a certain amount of

resentment hatred and he was he worked

hard at being sensible

no I think that we have way too much too

much they said it's blinding you hate

that much it blinds your cognition and

and there's some good and everybody you

have an extreme example

Adolf Hitler was terribly nice to his

dog his mistress and the Jewish doctors

that treated his mother's cancer I mean

there is something how many

I mean even Adolf Hitler had something really I mean

you don't have to be totally mad at

everybody you because you don't like their politics

 

Questioner

 

what about economically are you afraid

of the times today we'd compare it to

ten years ago when the Great Recession

happening maybe if you could well about

the recession it happened in a sense you

got

 

Charlie Munger

 

I had the easiest time in the

easiest place that any generation ever

had imagine being born a white male

burgeois household born in 1924 in Omaha

Nebraska I've had a huge tailwind all my life

 

there never was a better time when

more things got fixed more diseases got

cured there was more general

prosperity and improvement and so on and

so on and so on is the future gonna be

 

as easy for the young male born

in 2021 I don't think so I think

it's gonna be harder i I think you could

 

almost see that coming

and you know and so it was accidental we

got this terrible hydrogen bomb it's

given us some years of peace I mean

major piece we have little wars and my

father was scarcely out of one war

before someone's going off with another

and so no I think it's I think it will

be tougher in the future and I think be

 

oh I've been like continuously invested in

American Enterprise for seventy years

and It was a pretty good 70 years

I think the averages are up something

like 40 times in my adult life that

never was such a period before and load

and in real inflation-adjusted on course

it's not 40 times it's way less because

maybe two or three percent per annum is

inflation but what are the chances such

as some of the real return was seven or

eight percent

 

what are the chances that

the person who earned today is going to

have seven or eight percent growth and

no big Wars or troubles for seventy

years I'd say they're almost zero

now I don't got any reason to despair after

all why should you the spare in a world

 

I think if we have a game you can't win

anyway we're all going to die and if you

can stand that you can stand a little

depression or something yeah

 

Jack - Questioner

 

but what

about the in a shorter time horizon just

a good time to invest in the stock

market funny question is it yeah

 

Charlie Munger

 

well I am continuously invested in American

equities and but I've had my Berkshire

stock declined by 50% percent three times

and I don't doesn't bother me that much

just the natural consequence of adult

life probably lived so if you have my

attitude it doesn't really matter

 

I always like Kipling expressing

expression in that poem called called

 

If [Kipling Poem If]

 

and he said “success and failure yes

treat those two Impostors just the same”

 

it's just roll with it

 

sometimes it's going for you and so against it's all

part of the same game

so I think having if you get rid of the

crazy hatreds and the crazy

I don't mean you don't avoid bad people

I mean you will seldom talk to

anybody who's better avoiding bad people

than I am I am but I think that's okay but I don't

hate him

 

Larry

 

you know this causes me I'm

gonna let

 

Charlie

 

but they're always good I

don't think that it's gonna be as easy

for the next generation as it was for me

 

Questioner

 

I understand

 

 

Charlie

 

Jack Jack if you start all over again

you might not do as well either

 

I'm not

anxious to go back and try you want to

go back to go and try again

 

no we none of us do

 

Jack

 

I was very lucky just like

you in a sense I was luckier and that's

yes Larry

 

Larry

 

no no I was gonna say yeah do

do a little housekeeping were we

reserving some time or have we had we

talked with him about taking any

questions ultimately from who you'd like

to take some questions from the people

would you like to ask any questions

 

Charlie Munger

 

I do it at the annual meeting of Berkshire

all time look sometimes I don't answer but I take the question

 

yeah well you have the same pride my

 

your mics your good Mike here are their

 

mics and runners not sure if we have

 

them or not okay you have to speak

 

loudly any takers

 

I'm I'm sorry there raise your hand we

 

got ahead of the mic runners okay raise

 

your hand

 

introduce yourself

 

Alan Q&A

 

hi I'm in first Alan

hey thank you so much for for doing this

Jack this is an incredible opportunity

to meet somebody it's just so amazing

what what I'm struck by mr. Munger is

your is or humor and I'm I'm also struck

by your partner's humor and in your

style of communication in front of a

group especially in front of probably

your shareholders

my question is is

was something that you developed over

time or is it something that just sort

of happened naturally through your sort

of homespun storytelling ability or your

ability to understand the world

 

Charlie Munger

 

yeah I think Warren and I are very much

the way we were born we were both a bit

nerdish and not a huge successes as

young boys and but we both had this

love of humor and we both loved

understanding how things worked and

we both have been lucky enough to

attract marvelous associates and

partners and so

 

if we weren't pretty

good natured we'd be crazy and but

no it I don't think if you don't have

humor I don't think you can get it

I think you're born with it that's right

and the same with shyness oh you can

conquer shyness a little but

basically we all live with the nature's

we were given and we just have

to make do but Warren and I have fun in

business and we like our business and

 

we like the people we work with

and we like the problem-solving

 

that's a huge advantage in life if you really

love problem-solving that's that is

 

worth about 20 IQ points to another

 

Questioner

 

question right here thank you

 

introduce your phone to listen to thank

 

you

 

Audience Question #2

 

I wonder if I could ask you to go

back to maybe your s or something of

of what got you really excited when you

begin seeing what you might do and what

your future could be or what you seem to

be especially enthusiastic about that

led you this down

this path what turned you on first young

you know you could

 

 

Charlie Munger


well I came from a

conventional family happy marriage

good siblings etc my parents friends

were wonderful people so I had

just fabulous people in fact I used to

say I have a great trouble in Los

Angeles finding people's like as as

Fine as the people I used to know in Omaha

 

I had a very unusual desirable situation as a young boy and so did Warren

yeah well he was uh more unhappy when he was young than I was

 

and it just it just

happened and um I think a lot of it was

what was born in a lot of it was was the

proper training and proper background

my grandfather Munger was uh had been

born in extreme poverty his two parents

were schoolteachers a little town in

Nebraska and two schoolteachers income

enabled him to buy the meat for dinner

every night at the butcher shop in the

little town he lived in Nebraska he

went put yourself with a nickel when he

bought the parts of the Animal nobody

else would eat now if you start life

that poor and make your own way which my

grandmother did

you're quite a fellow and

 

he was self

educated in not so much he came to run

around early I mean he spoke Greek and

Latin self-educated and so I have a

very interesting people as my examples

and my Grandfather Munger believed down

to the soles of his feet and being

rational and he worked at it and I

watched it of course

works well for him it made him district

attorney and president of the Bar

Association and finally a very young

federal judge and he served as the only

federal judge in his capital city for

almost 40 years I mean he had a splendid

life and he always lived way below his income

and was able to help other people

when they needed help it's a very good

example and he was kind of firm about it

he never took a drop of liquor and

 

his whole life when somebody asked “why don't you drink”

 

he says “why would I take money out of my pocket and put

something in my mouth would make my head work less well”

 

well you can see why I like my grandfather and he was

politically incorrect when my parents got married he came he looked around the

congregation and he came time for him to

make a toast he said well he says I've

always particularly optimistic at a

wedding when I see the same kind of

people on both sides of the aisle well

that's not politically correct

 

well it's a very understandable sentiment and

so I had these good people around me and

and a very interesting time of peace and

so forth but what caused the financial

success was not extreme ability you know

I have a good mind but I I'm way short

of prodigy and

 

I've had results in life

that are prodigiously and that came from

tricks I just learned a few basic tricks

from people like my grandfather

 

Questioner

 

Now everybody's leaning in

 

Charlie Munger

 

no it's too late for you old guys yeah

the ya know there are all kinds of

tricks that I just got into by accident

own life one I invert all the time I was

a weather forecaster when I was in the

Air Corps and how did I handle my new

assignment being a weather forecaster in

the Air Corps is a lot like being a

doctor that reads x-rays it's a pretty

solitary you're on the hangar in the

middle of the night and growing weather

maps and putting pilots but you're not

interfacing with a bunch of year for old

men very much and so I figured out the

man I was actually making weather

forecasts for real pilots I said how can

I kill these pilots

 

oh that's not the question that most field would ask but I

want to know what's the easiest way to

kill them would be so I could avoid it

and so I thought it through and reverse

that way and I find they figured out I

said there are only two ways I'm ever

gonna get was in the ferry command the

right two ways I'm gonna kill pilot

until I'm gonna get him into icing his

plane can't handle and that will kill

him or I'm gonna get him someplace we

gonna run out of gas before he can land

because all the airports are stuck again

and I just was fanatic about avoiding

those two hazards and

 

if Kobe Bryant had

somebody like me he'll be with us yeah

it was so stupid kill kill yourself that

way and but just that basic I may have

learned that to my grandfather my

grandmother would say to him when I'm

swimming you'd say swim as long as you

want but stay near the shore well

 

but you can laugh but

he was a very wise man

 

Jack

 

but what I'm

hearing you say is that you as a

discipline look at what the risk is on

the other side of the situation and you

 

avoid that that's one of the rules

 

Charlie Munger

 

Well it's it's just it's it's like a lot of

practical problems in algebra if yu

invert you can solve it easily if you

don't it you can't solve it easily

and so of course I had that trick very

early and and most you always say how

can you please tell us what you do to

 

save India to help India and of course I

would approach it differently I'd say what could I do

who's the most easily hurt India and

approaching it in Reverse that way I got

better results you look at the

vulnerabilities yeah yes and

 

I have a whole bag of tricks like that

 

I been to the ROTC both in high school in college

and the RTC taught me to fire mortar

shells or artillery shells one shot over

one shot short

and then Kapow well I never shot me down

shells but I'd be using that metal trick

all my life that's why how I determine

what size to make something

 

over and under and Kapow and so I just got a bag

of tricks and I got the right bag of

tricks early and of course it's filling

of enormous help to me

 

let me give an example

 

I had a client once when I was a

young lawyer and he owned a bunch of

hilly ranch land on the edge of

civilization not very far from here in

Southern California and the Edison

Company came through and they wanted a

new easement through his land they

already had some easements and he hired

the leading appraiser an Orange County

real estate appraiser and said and he

had the idea that he should have

$250,000, for this easement from the

Edison Company and this leading

Appraiser who was very pompous and very old and

and very distinguished and he told no

I'm sorry it's only $125,000, value and

you're a damn ranch and so he came to me

and said Charlie can you talk some sense

into this elderly appraiser yeah

 

so I

looked at his problem when I call the

Appraiser well I thought how he's doing

is on an appraisal wrong I'm not a real

estate appraiser he is and what he had

done is what he was taught to do an

appraisal school he thought the problem

through in two dimensions and he figured

out from comparable sales what the value

for acre was they computed the acreage

and he had something a little bit on

the damage the easement would do to

the remaining property and so but it's

all done in two dimensions and I said to

this appraiser you've got to do this in

three dimensions you know God gave us

three dimensions and I said if they put

the utility towers big transmission line

towers which is why the years ago it's

gonna freeze the grade in the logical

way to OB our little hand is still op

off the top of the hills and put them in

the valley that's the way Kelley land is

developed and they're doing enormous

damage to you by freezing the grade and

he said you wouldn't change a damn thing

so I said to my elderly client I think

you have to fire this twit and I will

hire you an appraiser who can think and

 

so I got him $600,000, which wasn't at

all hard because I was dealing with a

bunch of almost engineers of the Edison

who did think of three dimensions but

you know that's so simple but you'd be

surprised how many lawyers would screw

that one up first him and of course

people like that appraiser I didn't know

his own business very well because he

didn't pay attention of the metals those

people are always with us

 

if you just have the metal trick of constantly going

back to the basics it's pretty basic in

sightless are you conscious about

the geometrical problem in a real world

of the three-dimensional

 

Larry

 

are you conscious of the rules or they're just

there well it's so habitual with you

understand that and I revolve

possibilities and I rag problems hard if

they don't yield I come back and

and so this is just a bag of tricks and

 

it enables a non-prodigious man to get

 

prodigious results

 

Jack

 

remember you last summer you bought Anadarko big oil

company yes and you described I think

you've just gotten back from being with

Warren for the weekend yeah you were

describing that you didn't do all the

analytics and you didn't do all of the

research but you used your bag of tricks

and you flew out to Omaha you and Warren

spent the weekend you called up the

president the bank America got the money

made the deal

 

Charlie Munger

 

no I didn't go to Omaha

 

Jack

 

where did you go?

 

Charlie Munger

 

no no I stay we have a

telephone

 

Jack

 

 

okay you talk to Warren about

it anyway yeah but you made it in about

two days and it was like no okay what

 

Charlie Munger

 

 

Warren didn't need why am i I've been

together so long that just one grunt we

can speak of volume and no

 

it's perfectly obvious the Permian Basin is

our number one oil reservoir and we

don't have another like it and it's

perfectly obvious you have a preferred

stock

that you have an advantage over

everybody else and plus an upside

 

and so we've done this kind of thing before too

so of course we did it and him and it's

not very difficult

 

but you're right

all kinds of analyst due diligence some

but we knew enough to act

they were in a hurry yes but but

you don't need perfect if you're %

sure that's all you're entitled to in

many cases

 

and I see these people doing this due

diligence and the weaker they are as

thinkers the more diligence they do and

of course, it's just a way of a laying

an enter in security and

of course it doesn't work you've got to be able to do

quickly understand the how much brains

does it take to know the Permian Basin

as America's best oil reserve its layer

after layer after layer you know

we there is nothing like comparable yes

and if you have an eight percent

dividend off the top if from a perfectly

reputable place of very talented people

the woman that runs that is a production

engineer she's good and they get

better results in that shale than other

people and

 

so it's a no brainer at least

it's a no brainer if you don't make it

hard but I see people if you in America

now they do these leveraged buyouts and

these firms do what they call due

diligence and they will send armies of

young lawyers out of high rates per hour

riffle through all the purchasing orders

in a place like ESRI

 

Jack

 

don't even think about it

 

Charlie Munger

 

no I'm not thinking about what

they but they but my point is they don't

ESRI would no you don't have to look

through the purchasing orders right to

know there's reason good business and

yeah I don't think people are that

insecure mentally ought to be in

positions of decision-making power

 

Larry

 

okay

we got one more question what's it gonna

 

be it better be a good one it's a good

 

one okay introduce yourself

 

Joshua Gillespie – Q&A #3

 

hello I'm Joshua Gillespie Thank You Larry Jack

Charlie for all being here Charlie like

 

you I am very excited about investing in

undervalued assets however specifically

what I'm interested in is low

socio-economic young folks who are not

college bound so what specific advice

functional advice would you give to that

demographic of folk who are looking to

better their lives

 

Charlie Munger

 

well I don't think you can just give it

a good base to the young and just have

it automatically sprout like Jacks being

stalked a lot of people are just natural

non-sprouters and

 

so my technique is to find the people who have the

sprouting of them fertilize them greatly

and in other words and Warren puts it

on more pithy way as you might imagine

he says we make soap verses out of silk

 

[Laughter]

 

that's our system that's right

 

we don't know how to turn

 

now I can turn any purse any silk and oh pretty a

better person so learn my tricks but

what I found there is that they either

get it quickly almost instantly or I

never get through I don't know what

Jack's experience is

 

but I ever okay they're nice people and they're but that

they got their foot their thoughts are

already there the thoughts they already

have this place they've been programmed

in a different way than you and they

can't accept the championship - yes even

if they kind of suspect you're right and

you're rich and they're not they still

think they know

 

 

Jack

 

well they're victimized by their rules or their

tricks as you call them you happen to be

brought up in an environment where the tricky and

 

Charlie Munger

 

one of the great tricks in

life is to destroy your own best loved

ideas and and that I worked at

I actually go through my best loved

ideas the case let's see if I can weed

one out you know

 

Jack

 

what are you talking about give me an example

 

Charlie Munger

 

*musing to himself for ~30 seconds*

 

well that’s a good hello a good example,

well that's a very good example but it's

not an example of this the we all oh I

gave you an example it's a hard one we

 

had an executive in virtue it was a

wonderful human being and terribly good

at what he does he was an actuary and he

was a member of our inner council he was

with us we knew his wife and children

we loved the guy and he got a nasty

cancer and was dying slowly and we just

left him there dying and failing and the

reinsurance contracts he signed during

those last two or three weeks were awful

it was a mistake and I've never done it again

yeah it's natural to love your friend so

much and it's hard to come down on the

close friend here and

 

Jack

 

it's in your rules

or can you break it's like getting up on

the same side of the bed every morning

when you believe in something like you

obviously are expressing a couple things

to me one is that you love this guy and he

didn't want to just shut him down so you

kept him in place and he screwed up is

that the basic message

 

Charlie Munger

 

yeah I have a higher duty and it was you know it I

think it's a forgivable sin you know I'd

rather have if I'm gonna have sins I'd

rather have this one than a lot of others

but it was mistake yes it was a mistake

 

Jack

 

or maybe not

 

Charlie

 

and you know what that

happened to Lee Kuan Yew this guy admire

so much, Singapore were so many decades

and his best friend and committed some

moral act an immoral act and had come to

life in and he committed suicide and the

wife came to close friends and said you know in

Chinese culture it's a deep shame to

commit suicide can't we cover up the suicide he said no

we can't cover up again he was just

tougher on maintaining certain standards

I don't know whether that's right or not

but I suspect he was right after all he

built an empire, you've got a whole

nation and all I've done is build one mall

 

Jack

 

well I'd like to close with a

couple more questions about your own

philanthropy at UCSB and first how did

you do

 

Charlie Munger

 

So that is by the way that's a

marvelous example exactly because

there's an example say Here I am

years old this time

 

Jack

this is Chancellor Yang

 

 

Jack

 

but I've got a friend who's the widow of

the last surviving grandchild of Doheny

major California oilman of a former era

and but it's in Santa Barbara the

ultimate NIMBYism and she's got an 1800,

acre ranch with two miles of frontage on

the ocean no wind perfect climate great

views avocado trees it has a private

lake it's like you can't believe it

and she can't sell to anybody because nobody

in Santa Barbara's gonna be fair enough

to allow her to do any with her own property

and she really needed the sell and so I

said tough see

 

I said I'll give the University seventy million dollars and

and we'll have it we'll buy the ranch

with my seventy million dollars well I

knew that the university's not subject

to the damn sound of our rezoning rules

 

and so I suddenly transformed seventy

million dollars into a billion dollars

worth of property in about two seconds

now I didn't get the billion, the

University did but I like helping the

 

university and particularly when I can

 

get a billion dollars for the value for

seventy million dollars was a little

horse sense and so

 

Jack

 

what's gonna happen

 

Charlie Munger

 

Not everybody would have known that they

 

weren't subject to

 

Jack

 

the university needs housing Charlie saw that they needed

housing he was interested in the

university you saw this property and so

now they suddenly have the ability to

build housing for students

 

Charlie Munger

 

it's a well it'll be faculty and graduate students

yeah and yeah but it's more extreme than

that I'm also I just got approved last

week by the subcommittee of the Regents

to build a dormitory for undergraduates

at UCSB in this case I'm gonna give them

percent of the money and they're

gonna borrow the rest the three percent

or something like that and but this

housing is going to put five thousand

students on five acres and the housing

will be the best of its kind in the

world how in the hell can some

ninety five year old guy doesn't know anything

to speak of about housing suddenly be

right when he says we'll put 5,000,

people on five acres and it'll be the

best housing in the world well but I've

 

built other housing I'm not quite as

ignorant as I look and and I realized

that all I had to do was to make a big

square building which is 10 stories high

under both the top story to being a sort

of an art town on the sky with great

views looking out at the world with high

ceilings and so forth and then adopt

ship architecture for the rest of the

thing and build it out of precast

concrete for the first seven floors on

poured concrete foundation and then

build the top floor out of Butler steel

components which is what Costco uses to

build its stores its stores wherever

it's allowed to do it and when i work

that out it it works like gangbusters it

can't Pawn every trick in this building

 

I've already done somewhere else I just

assembled a trick out of a bag of tools

it sounds ridiculous

 

Jack

 

It doesn't sound

ridiculous to me it sounds like you're

philanthropic put all the stuff together

to actually make it real

 

Charlie Munger

 

it's the mental trick that's interesting

why can't a university with an IQ average of 160

and nothing to do but think about its

future

oh one thing else I did

 

Jack

 

why can't

they do that on your own is what's your saying

 

Charlie Munger

 

why are the universities so stupid

that's a very important question and

 

they're not stupid about everything they

just have a few blind spots and one of

the blind spots is they run out of land

now how can a great University and the

most important state in the most

important country in the world how the

hell can you run out of land and think

you're being a rational University?

UCLA has run out of land

Berkeley has run out of land

How could places so massively brilliant they win Nobel Prizes and so forth

he's stupid enough to run out of land

the answer is they get these damn bureaucracies

and somebody has to be the adult in the room who

 

it's not a mild bit of

craziness to run out of land if you’re UCLA

 

well my grandfather would say that he basically

thought it was sinful to be dumber

than you had to be

 

and I share some of that

what you can't remove I think it's

forgivable, to have an easily

removable ignorance in your own head is

really stupid

that is really gonna happen you

you people are all gonna live to see

it and building ship architecture on land

how hard the subject is that

 

Jack

 

I've seen

the plans they're really so clever for

students to live in views for every student to the ocean

 

Charlie Munger

 

well let me tell

you here it's the final one what's these

great 160 IQ people do it takes 20 extra

square feet of space under the building

code that binds a university in

California the UC system, 20 extra square feet to give a

student his own private sleeping area 20

extra square feet can you think of

anything dumber than building housing

that's gonna last 200 years when you

force a whole bunch unrelated people to

live together and throw up on one other and god knows what

to save twenty extra square the incremental cost of 20 extra it's insane

so I gave every student his own room

when I went into the Regents committee there

was this nice woman and she said you

know she's I never had a single room

my whole college career that didn’t have

somebody else in it it's insane it's

absolutely insane and I'm fixing it

but why wasn't it already fixed where

 

 

Jack

 

did you study architecture or how did

 

you come to all of them

 

Charlie Munger

 

 

well I hate to

admit this to somebody like use of

perfectionist but I pick easy problems

it's easy to fix housing minutes other people are so dumb

they put two unrelated people in the

same room when it takes twenty extras

square feet to eliminate that defect so

I seek out easy problems I've tried hard

Problems it's makes it a lot more difficult okay

 

Jack

 

I got one final one yeah early didn't

 

you buy See's candy

 

Charlie Munger

 

yes I certainly do

 

that why did I do it I mean yeah anybody

 

got a guess something that was a I did

it well here I want to confess something

that will give you all encouragement

because it will show how dumb we all

were when they were young and how we

barely bought it

 

the price was thirty-five billion

dollars and they had ten million in

surplus cash and they're making four

million dollars a year so hardly

expensive and it was this iconic brand

and that been created by a woman

that was 70 years old when she founded

the company very interesting story and

at the very end we were above a hundred

thousand dollars apart and Warren was

used to saying goddammit you know I'll

bid 20 and 1/8 I don't mean a quarter

 

and we just almost didn't buy it

and I would not we just squeaked through

we made a wonderful decision because we

were just barely smart enough to make a

no-brainer and that teaches another

lesson to:

 

we all start out stupid and

we all have a hard time staying sensible

 

 

You have to keep working at it

 

Berkshire would be a wreck today if it

were run by what Warren and I knew when we started

 

its just we kept learning

 

and I don't think we'd have all the billions

of stock of Coca-Cola we now have if we

hadn't bought See's you know I mean there

were huge consequences of getting over

that less stupidity we through our

typical yeah firm businesslike methods and

 

what happened there neither Warren nor I deserve any real credit

for my partner.

 

I had wonderful partners

all my life it was a petroleum engineer

he just said to warn me you guys are all

wrong on this he says this is a

wonderful company and you're being way too chancy

there aren't many companies like this

and that he changed our minds so now you

know how we were smart enough to buy See's

barely okay the answer is barely

 

Jack

 

You said to me in ok this is my last

 

Charlie Munger

 

by the way we're smarter now I'm glad but I'm

 

glad everybody appreciates

 

Jack

 

yeah yeah you

said to me something about the high road

 

Charlie Munger

 

oh that's Warren's famous remark I love

that I sure that Warren always says you

should always take the high road cuz

it's less crowded

 

Jack

 

we'll close without ladies and gentlemen

thank you for being

 

[Applause]

 

Thank you

 

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